Curse

Arnold Killmachine · May 20, 2011, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Let dervishes have 3-pip energy regen to actually make them vulnerable to spamming aura thorns/onslaught, in other way it only targets secondaries not the derves themselves.

Shadar · May 21, 2011, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

These updates are quite concerning since PvP is hard and any "spill over" might make it impossible. PvP does have its effects on PvE. There, posted edited less poorly.

The effects of PvP balancing on PvE are miniscule considering you have PvE-only skills and consumables which are designed to make the game piss easy for everyone not good enough to play it otherwise.
Also, pretty sure this upcoming update won't make any SCs slower or whatever.

Please don't quote me again.

NerfHerder · May 21, 2011, 03:23 AM // 03:23

GvG skill balancing has a huge effect on casual PvP, and still manages to undermine effectiveness of many PvE builds. You cant compare GvG skill nerfs that overspill into PvE to PvE skills and SF SCs. Those are two totally different problems.

However, you can compare the effectiveness of an AoB Derv over the course of the last few skill updates in PvE. And you can see why PvE'rs are just as upset with skill balancing as GvG'rs are when balancing effects thier meta. ANet tries not to skill split, but its obviously more necessary than they realize.

Personally, the PvE Dervish nerfs wont effect me much. I'm more concerned over the current state of Rangers, Eles, Paras, and smite Monks. They dont need huge profession changing updates(that too could have disasterous effects on PvP), they just need a few skill changes to keep them balanced to other professions. Not to mention, we could use some more content to take advantage of the nice updates we got.

Essence Snow · May 21, 2011, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadar

The effects of PvP balancing on PvE are miniscule considering you have PvE-only skills and consumables which are designed to make the game piss easy for everyone not good enough to play it otherwise.
Also, pretty sure this upcoming update won't make any SCs slower or whatever.

Please don't quote me again.

Not always and there is the lil fact that it effects at least 4X the amount of people. That in itself makes it far from miniscule. Condsidering pvp is mainly meta vs meta it should be piss easy to figure out what the other teams are running...unless your not good enough to play it.....See what I did there.....quoted for fun

ErrantVenture · May 21, 2011, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

The more I think about it, the more I have become convinced that every major problem in GW (every single one of them) is either directly cause by powercreep or has powercreep as the major confound.

I was tempted to write up a big long post, but what is the point? Those that believe powercreep is a problem already think this way. Those that don't believe it is a problem are, at the end of the day, simply not going to have their opinions changed. No point in posting about it to the community.

Really it is more of an issue to direct to the group of Anet in charge of supporting GW1. Of course they legally cannot even read these forums (or some similar bullshit that is contradicted by their posting and responding on this forum). And if they were open to changing their balancing philosophy they would have done so long ago. So again, what is even the point of writing something up?

The developers definitely recognized this. That's why GW2 has been designed so that powercreep is more or less impossible. There's a very limited pool of skills in GW2. As long as they don't keep introducing new skills (like they did in GW1) or better equipment, powercreep cannot happen.

FoxBat · May 21, 2011, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

As long as they don't keep introducing new skills (like they did in GW1) or better equipment, powercreep cannot happen.

Just wait for the expansions. It might happen at a slower rate, but it's inevitable.

Aljasha · May 21, 2011, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Simply put, the number of guilds that have some idea of how the game works but aren't yet in contention for anything has plummeted in Europe and is virtually zero in America.
[...]

This doesn't contradict my statement, though. I agree with your point(s), but I think the problem of the gvg crowd is the bad skill balance and not the age of the game or the departure of a major chunk of the gvg crowd. Anet has the chance to relaunch gvg with some good balance updates and decisions. If they accomplished this, they could reform that critical mass by hand.

One can wish.

Reverend Dr · May 21, 2011, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

The developers definitely recognized this. That's why GW2 has been designed so that powercreep is more or less impossible. There's a very limited pool of skills in GW2. As long as they don't keep introducing new skills (like they did in GW1) or better equipment, powercreep cannot happen.

They announced GW2 in 2007, then kept powercreeping the game for 4 years.

But seriously "They are going to fix it in GW2" is a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO all useless argument. We are not talking about GW2, we are talking about this game. Also you are just flat out wrong. You can very much have powercreep without new skill additions (see the last 4 years). If Anet doesn't actually learn what contributes to powercreep then it won't take long for their "diversity" buffs to powercreep their next game into the shitter.

instanceskiller · May 21, 2011, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Meh nothing really interesting. I hope they follow up on their recent string of slight buffs to elementalists in the next few updates.

AndrewSX · May 21, 2011, 02:31 PM // 14:31

The "Recent slight buffs to eles" are just a fix awaited for 4+ years.
The fact of have the only e-management of the prof is locked on 2-3 skills of the bar was already stupid. Have the most important (Attunement) be a 2 sec cast, 45 recharge enchantement was even more stupid.

Bflash buff wasn't expecetd only because not needed. Invoke/chain were buffed in recharge, and then toned down in damage.

@ DiogoSillva: I understand that Stumme do not want another large update, but HM PvE Rangers and Eles must be fixed(i'm start thinking that they decided to ignore this issue btw).
And i don't think that "Fix 2 pve skills and you'll be fine" way will be enough. Change them 1 attribute line at time if you prefer, to be sure you're not creating a new derv-like monster( remember that next should be Smiters and Motigons. Changes based on lines), but DO a massive overhaul.

Cuilan · May 21, 2011, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadar

The effects of PvP balancing on PvE are miniscule considering you have PvE-only skills and consumables

If you knew anything about PvE, you'd know that PvE skills don't for the most part require attribute points and many aren't tied to a profession at all. Same with consumables. Balance does matter in PvE as it's more than being able to do a simple quest or not.

*lemming* · May 21, 2011, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Balance does matter in PvE as it's more than being able to do a simple quest or not.

Not disagreeing with that, but how specifically do those two nerfs that weren't split affect PvE balance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aljasha

This doesn't contradict my statement, though. I agree with your point(s), but I think the problem of the gvg crowd is the bad skill balance and not the age of the game or the departure of a major chunk of the gvg crowd. Anet has the chance to relaunch gvg with some good balance updates and decisions. If they accomplished this, they could reform that critical mass by hand.

One can wish.

What are the odds of that happening, though? At some point, there needs to be a critical mass of lower-ranked players getting better. If you look at the GvG in Crisis thread, there's quite a few complaints from new players about playing against smurfs, or at the very least, guilds far better than them.

Cuilan · May 22, 2011, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Not disagreeing with that, but how specifically do those two nerfs that weren't split affect PvE balance?

They don't, I'm replying to this person's silly posts.

Still Number One · May 22, 2011, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

( remember that next should be Smiters and Motigons. Changes based on lines)

Oh hell no. no. no. no. no. no. please please please please no. The two worst things to ever be introduced to the game getting buffed again? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

Every single time those two attribute lines were useful, the game was a million times worse than it is in its current state. Smiting is only useful if dreadfully overpowered or if it has healing capabilities (smiters boon). Neither one of those scenerios is good. Armor ignoring damage is way too powerful a factor to be buffed to numbers above what they currently are. The only way to not make them broken would be to make it fire damage instead of holy and we already have fire elementalists. There is no reason to have two attribute lines from different professions do the same thing. leave smiters dead, they need to be dead, they only ruin the game.

Motigons are the same problem. They are useless unless the numbers are big enough to be effective and if that is the case they are overpowered. Paragons do far too much damage to be allowed to add party support and healing. Both smiters and motigons are destroyed for a reason. THEY RUINED THE GAME.

Giving healing/support abilities to characters that can also deal massive amounts of damage is the worst thing you could possibly do. Characters should only be able to do one or the other, not both. And don't try using the excuse that A.Net will be careful and find common ground between the two. They won't. They never have, and there is 0 reason to believe they ever will. You think the Dervish update increased powercreep, well then wait and see what a smiter and motigon update would do.

no no no no no no a thousand times NO!

NerfHerder · May 22, 2011, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

-snip-

A Rt can heal/support/damage and they are pretty balanced. A lil OP in damage in PvE, but you get the idea. As long as you cant deal damage and heal really well at the same time, its balanced.

I have alot more faith in ANet balancing attribute lines than huge profession overhauls. In the case of the Dervish only about 10 skills were really OP, and thats mostly in PvP. Anet has taken too long to fix the OP Dervish skills, but as GW players we should expect to have to wait, and I never expected it to be perfect. Even still, most of the Dervish skills were well balanced. ANet is capable of balancing skills, it just takes a LOOONG time.

Paragons should have something to do in PvP, and more than one build in PvE.

Monks should have an offensive build, in thier own flavor. The smiting line is currently only used for SoH, SF/Secondary abuse, and RoJ. And RoJ isnt all its cracked up to be.

It has been over a year since they said they were going to work on non-Imbagon Paragons and Smite Monks, so I wouldnt hold your breath on that update. Even still, alot of players think those attributes could use some attention.

Artisan Archer · May 22, 2011, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

I have alot more faith in ANet balancing attribute lines than huge profession overhauls.

You mean like they did to blood magic and hammer mastery? That wasn't a succes either... PvP-wise anyway.

*lemming* · May 22, 2011, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

They don't, I'm replying to this person's silly posts.

His core point is still mostly correct, though, no? Is it that big a deal that some people have their pet builds impaired because a niche skill that sees minimal play in PvE gets nerfed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Paragons should have something to do in PvP

They do. Just like curse necros and dom mesmers and earth eles, it happens to not be a niche function that's useful in the current metagame. That's not a sign that they either need to or should be buffed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

You mean like they did to blood magic and hammer mastery? That wasn't a succes either... PvP-wise anyway.

Seriously.

Urcscumug · May 22, 2011, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Paragons are a useless profession.

Plus, they're not realistic. I mean, where do they keep getting those spears from, thin air? Come on!

Lanier · May 22, 2011, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

Plus, they're not realistic. I mean, where do they keep getting those spears from, thin air? Come on!

Hehe, paragons should have been a melee profession to start with. Most of the spears ingame arn't very aerodynamic anyway. Plus, how badass would it be to be able to fight like a spartan soldier

On a more serious note, paragons definitely need buffs in PvE. Rits combine support with damage and healing, and the only overpowered thing about them is spirits (which is another issue for another thread). As long as paragons dont recieve skills that allows them to summon more bodies like rits and necroes do, there is nothing wrong with allowing them to fulfill multiple roles.

Killed u man · May 22, 2011, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Well a large part, if not the whole problem, with paragons is that Strength of Honor doesn't work on ranged attacks, which never made any sense anyways. (In the old days, ye it would've been concidered OP, but now? Who gives a sht?!)

If SoH worked on ranged attacks, paragons would be on par, if not better with warriors. Also, before you go: W/D scythe -> Paragons can take a scythe aswell, aight?